NOTE THAT THE PRICES IN THIS POST ARE TWO YEARS OLD AND MAY NO LONGER BE VALID, AND SOME OR ALL OF THE LIGHT STYLES SHOWN MAY NO LONGER BE AVAILABLE.
THIS PAGE WILL BE CORRECTED WHEN UPDATED INFORMATION IS OBTAINED.
Phase IV owners currently pay over $20,000 per year for the 55 street lights in their part of the community. Replacing the current mercury vapor lights with high-efficiency LED lights that use 50% less energy than the current lights would cost less and some of these lights comply with environmentally-friendly dark sky standards. Numerous studies have shown that artificial light at night has numerous negative and deadly effects on many types of wildlife including birds, amphibians, insects and mammals. “Dark sky” lights are designed to light streets and sidewalks while minimizing effects on wildlife.
Your HOA board requests your input on this decision. Please read about the options and look at the pictures of the four options, then scroll down to vote in BOTH polls. In the first you will vote on whether to keep the existing lights or to replace them with LED lights. In the second, you will vote for the style of LED light you prefer if the majority votes to change to LED lights. These polls will start on July 31 at midnight and end on August 14 at midnight. Each HOUSEHOLD can vote only once, and only those living in Phase IV will be able to vote. The Board will implement the winning options, regardless of how many votes are received.
These lights are long-lead items. Approximately 6 to 8 months after we place our order Duke Energy will replace our existing lights at no charge to us and our monthly payments will be adjusted at that time.
Duke Energy has several LED lights that can be used on our existing poles and despite the fact that they all use 50% less power, Duke Energy’s monthly fee for each is different. Pictured below you are the two “Traditional” LED models that provide the greatest cost savings, as well as the “Acorn” style lights currently installed and the K-118 LED model that most closely resembles them. Beside each is the approximate annual cost savings if all Phase IV street lights are replaced with them and a link to Duke Energy’s specification sheet that provides additional information such as light output in lumens and the light pattern projected onto the ground.
LED light does not look the same as light from mercury vapor lamps. One of the K-118 lights is currently installed near 14419 Bella Lane and we encourage you to look at it before voting.
Note that cost savings are based on Duke Energy’s current price plans, and subject to change over time, as is the cost of our current lights if we do not vote to change them.
The Candidates
The Closed Traditional LED light is not dark-sky compliant and offers the greatest cost savings of all the candidates, at approximately $5,000 per year.
Click here to see its detailed specification sheet.
The Open Traditional LED light is dark-sky compliant and offers the 2nd greatest cost savings of all the candidates, at approximately $3,800 per year.
Click here to see its detailed specification sheet.
The K-118 LED light is dark-sky compliant and offers the least cost savings of all the candidates, at approximately $360 per year.
You can see the difference in light color and brightness of LED lights by observing the one currently installed near 14419 Bella Lane.
Click here to see its detailed specification sheet.
The current Acorn-style lights use mercury vapor lamps that consume twice as much power as the LED alternatives while producing less light. They are not dark-sky compliant.
Duke Energy does not have a current specification sheet for it.
George, is it correct that we have one vote per home?
That’s correct, John.
Appreciate your participation.
Before voting I will take a look at the existing LED lamp this evening. Can the Board provide information on the cost of replacing these street lamps plus the cost of installation? If this far outweighs the cost of maintaining the current lights, why are we placing this to vote? I do agree that LED lights are more efficient, but its not just the cost of running the lamps the we need to consider. The replacement and installation will likely be a large cost to incur.
Many thanks Ray for your feedback.
As I explained in my previous replies (see below), there is no cost for P4 residents. Duke Energy is indeed eager to change streetlights to LED wherever it can. P4 does not own those lights we only pay to light up in our streets. Besides, we will benefit from the energy saving, which will reduce our monthly electricity bill!
I would be fine eliminating the lights frankly, but if we need to keep them have Duke cover cost and they also benefit from the energy savings. The frosted panel would look cleaner than the clear LED and require less cleaning????
Thanks Robin for your feedback. Duke is covering the cost of changes and P4 residents benefit from the energy savings, as described above.
The open have an advantage that they do hold dust and Duke Energy has the obligation to clean them without any charge, if any. The open ones are the trend now.
Hi Brian,
Thanks for your comment and feedback. I’d like to point out that the poll is the result of several weeks of analysis for Duke Energy’s invoices and their breakdown; in addition to various email exchanges and telephone calls with Duke Energy’s representative. It is true that in familiar language we “rent” those poles. But Duke Energy’s terminology is different. The electric company says, “we are making lights available to you similar to making electric current to your home, we do not rent or lease”! Therefore, we cannot buy the poles, for instance. Putting aside complex economic and legal terminology, yes, I noticed that the streetlights expense is a major expense in our budget, and this is the reason why I was determined to lead discussion with Duke Energy to reduce the cost. Because of Duke Energy’s business model and its monopoly in our area, unfortunately there are not many options available to save electricity. Our best bet is to adopt LED lights instead of the existent lights with vapor to alleviate the cost by reducing the consumption. Hope the above helps.
Phase 1-3 , no change, what’s wrong with our lights?
Phase 4 if they want new lights they pay for the change.
Btw, I recognize that the poll states there will not be any cost to LOEHOA, but that is highly unlikely. I expect there are hidden costs or installation fees that will be charged by Duke or its installer. Any additional cost that solely benefits Phase IV must be borne by the homeowners in Phase IV, regardless of whether it is for streetlights, road repairs, gate improvements, etc… .
Thank you for your comments and advice. As can notice from this year and previous MASTER budgets, there is a negligible amount charged to electricity caption. The budgeted amount for 2022-2023 is $1,320. Those charges are incurred in conjunction with the energy consumed by the pumps. Phase 1, 2 and 3 streetlights are provided by Orange County. On the other hand, Phase 4 pays $20K+ for streetlights per year to Duke Energy because it is a private community and Orange County does not provide streetlights. The budgeted and actual amount incurred on streetlights are booked separately in PHASE 4 budget and books respectively.
It is fair to worry about the cost allocation because Phase 4 is a private community, and it incurs expenses and capital cost that must be charged exclusively to Phase 4. I am sure you agree with me that it is very odd that Phase 4 is grouped under the same blanket of Live Oak Estates HOA, in a time it must be a separate entity.
I hope I addressed your concerns and answered your questions.
Before any voting, I would like to suggest you contact Duke Energy for a breakdown of all monthly expenses on the street lighting and the POLES.
Unless things have changed between Duke and phase 4, I BELIEVE WE RENT THE POLES. This should be addressed as well.
The rental of the poles is a large monthly expense. The only way to address the problem is to sit down with a Duke representative in order to alleviate the cost of the pole rental, a large part on the monthly cost.
Hi Brian,
Thanks for your comment and feedback. I’d like to point out that the poll is the result of several weeks of analysis for Duke Energy’s invoices and their breakdown; in addition to various email exchanges and telephone calls with Duke Energy’s representative. It is true that in familiar language we “rent” those poles. But Duke Energy’s terminology is different. The electric company says, “we are making lights available to you similar to making electric current to your home, we do not rent or lease”! Therefore, we cannot buy the poles, for instance. Putting aside complex economic and legal terminology, yes, I noticed that the streetlights expense is a major expense in our budget, and this is the reason why I was determined to lead discussion with Duke Energy to reduce the cost. Because of Duke Energy’s business model and its monopoly in our area, unfortunately there are not many options available to save electricity. Our best bet is to adopt LED lights instead of the existent lights with vapor to alleviate the cost by reducing the consumption. Hope the above helps.
George, you probably know this already, but in case you don’t, I complained to Duke Energy about how that new bulb and fixture were not in keeping with the rest of the lighting because the fixture is different and the white bulb is too bright.
I received a reponse from Duke on December 28 (see below) which I sent to J.R. (see below). I didn’t pursue this again because my husband was in intensive care at the time.
December 28, 2022 – Automatic Transcript of voice mail from Duke Energy, which I forwarded to J.R. on December 30th: “Good morning. My name is Jasmine with Duke Energy. I work with the outdoor lighting team. This message is for Nancy. I’m calling regarding a work order that I received regarding the the street light being to bright and I just wanted to give you some information. I do see that someone reported the light being out earlier this month to the streetlight repair team. There’s only two things that they can replace to have the light remain that Amber yellowish color. So that would be the actual bulb or the photo cell, which is the sensor. However, whenever the light requires more than that, then the entire fixture or the head gets replaced. And that’s when the LED version comes in, which we only now carry LED. And also we do offer shields at one time cost to the customer, in this case that would be your homeowners association. So I would suggest reaching out to them. Any official request will need to be made on their lighting account and by someone listed on the HOA board or something. Any further question, please contact customer service at 1-800-700 8744. Thank you so much, and you have a great day, bye-bye.”
January 2, 2023, response from J.R. via e-mail:
“Hello Nancy,
I’m still on vacation until tomorrow, but your question intrigued me, so I thought to answer to the best of my ability.
Technology for lighting moves on, and LEDs are cost saving for the amount of power they consume over older lighting elements. As more of your lights go out and replaced with LEDs, it seems like just a matter of time before they all are changed.
All that said, the board would need to vote to extend additional funds for any ‘add-ons’ as described in the reply from Duke Energy. I’ll need to contact them about this to determine the cost involved.
Happy New Year,
J.R.”
Many thanks for your comment, Nancy.
It is disappointing that you did not receive feedback from J.R.
The Colonial Open LED light that I am proposing in the poll is much much better than the LED Acorn you have in front of your door. It does not require a shield since they are dark sky and light downward instead in a lateral manner, as is the case now. Once we change to the Colonial LED (open is my preference), you issue will be solved.
Meanwhile, I suggest that you go the Duke Energy website and ask for a change from the Acorn LED back to Vapor. It will be temporary vapor until Duke Energy changes all the light to LED.
My understanding is that Duke no longer provides the mercury vapor lights. We ended up with the one LED light when the old light failed and no replacements were available.
By the way, please notice the new “add me to your mailing list” option below the comment form. I’ll be adding this elsewhere on the website in the future, and hope everyone opts in to provide us with another means of keeping you informed of what’s happening in our community.
This is a good idea, provided however, that 100% of the costs for replacing the lights are paid for by Phase IV homeowners. It would be a breach of fiduciary duty and will expose the board to personal liability if these costs are paid for by any LOE homeowners other than Phases IV.